Why there is always hope

Diane says that hope isn’t a wish or a desire with a slight expectation. Rather, it has a spiritual foundation. “The hope that we’re talking about is a God-given, innate spiritual quality, and everyone is in full possession of this hope. Each one has been hard-wired by God with hope, and with it your expectation isn’t in another person or in a solution of your own making.” It follows then that our true expectation is in God, who having our best interests at heart, can govern, comfort, and heal. She says that it’s very comforting to find and to accept the spiritual reassurance in the Bible that God is Love, not merely loving but Love itself. Love, God, is a very present help in trouble. And that is a profound reason for hope.

During the chat, Diane responds to questions about how to overcome discouragement, how to move past hoping to healing, how to deal with financial difficulties, and how to pray for homeless people around the world. She also provides some thoughts for visitors who ask about how to heal acne, arthritis, and incurable conditions of various kinds.

Chat transcript

Rosalie Dunbar: Hello everyone. Welcome to another spirituality.com live question and answer audio event. My name is Rosalie Dunbar, and I’ll be your host for the next hour. Today we’ll be talking about why there’s always hope, and our guest is Diane Marrapodi, a teacher and practitioner of Christian Science from Forest Hill, Maryland. Diane’s love for Christian Science began early, and right after college she received training, and then served as a Christian Science nurse for ten years. She’s been a practitioner since 1981, and a teacher of Christian Science since 1985. We’re so glad to have her with us. Diane, do you have some thoughts to get us started?

Diane Marrapodi: I do, thank you Rosalie, I appreciate it. Yesterday I was talking with a really good friend of mine about the subject of today’s chat—hope. We spoke about hope, not as a wish or a desire with a slight expectation, but as an innate quality with a spiritual foundation. My friend said that when she was twelve years old she was unexpectedly asked to recite a Bible verse that she had memorized. And for a moment she didn’t think she knew any by heart. But all of a sudden the words from John 3 , verse 16 poured out of her mouth: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” She told me that in the decades since that experience those words have always been a ready and reliable source of hope in any challenging situation. She found that time after time she could trust the fact that God loved the world, including her, and that His plan for her was always infinitely good. As our conversation concluded, I confessed to her that through the years the qualities of hope, faith, and trust weren’t ones that I generally identified with. It had always made perfect sense that God created, loved, and cared for His entire creation, including me. For decades I had known the fact that with God, all is well. It has always been so clear and concrete. I stood with that fact during challenges, and I’d proven it hundreds and hundreds of times. But you know, Rosalie, the day came when my world was rocked to its core. There was a phone call from a stranger informing me that my brother, and only sibling, had committed suicide. When I went to God in prayer I can tell you there was a void. Everything was black.

Rosalie: Wow.

Diane: I had no words to pray, no thoughts to think, I had nothing. At that point I excused myself from the family, and I went into another room to reach out to God with my whole heart for something, for anything. I was actually sitting on a bed and it felt like there was a long, black tunnel, and I was falling down that tunnel. Now I knew as I thought that there was no tunnel. That was an illusion, but that’s what it felt like. In Scriptural terms, I had to go into the closet and close the door (see Matt. 6:6 ) on a horrible report, a flood of human opinions and speculations, and a torrent of questions that were plaguing thought. Knowing that a void was not a condition of God’s creation, I took inventory, and what I found, it seemed like just an ounce of childlike hope, faith, and trust. And I was so grateful for that morsel of spirituality which quieted thought and led to a depth of comfort, that no matter what happened next to my brother, he could never be outside of God’s infinite compassion and care. And with that tiny glimpse of hope, the sense of devastation gave way to gratitude and relief that God was everywhere present to comfort, correct, and shepherd in progressive and inspired ways the thought of anyone who had chosen to end his life. Realizing the infinite nature of God, and man’s total unity with Him, moved my thought. It healed my grief and enabled me to offer this comfort with healing results to others who were facing the same news. During that experience of going into the closet and shutting the door, I realized I had a choice to make, and I had to make it fast. Mentally I felt like I was about to crack up, and I thought if I didn’t treat this quickly, thoroughly, and trust God like I’ve never trusted Him before, the world would say this could take a long time to get over a shock like that. But the track record for healing in Christian Science had always been quick, and I trusted that track record. And that’s why today we’re going to talk about hope that is more than a wish. It’s more than a desire with a slight expectation that may or may not be satisfied. The hope that we’re talking about is a God-given, innate spiritual quality, and that it’s one that everyone listening is in full possession of. Each one has been hard-wired by God with hope. And with it, your expectation isn’t in another person, or in a solution of your own making. Your true expectation is in God, who, having your best interest at heart, tenderly governs, comforts, and heals you.

Rosalie: Well, that sounds really good. And I think that people will gain a lot from getting to know God that way, as a God of hope, and also as a God of healing.

Diane: Yes, yes. That focus on who God is, is absolutely an imperative. It’s very comforting to find the spiritual reassurance in the Bible that God is Love, not merely loving, but is Love itself. And as Love itself, is a very present help in trouble.

Rosalie: Right, and as you’ve told about your friend, the citation from John about “God so lov[ing] the world,” that’s sort of an active love. It’s not just sort of a passive love, like the sun sort of shining, but a love that really is part of our lives.

Diane: That’s exactly right, that’s exactly right. And what did Jesus come to teach us but this God who is perfect, and then by expression or extension of being His child, God’s child, that we have a perfect nature to understand, to prove, to rely on, to demonstrate?

Rosalie: Yes. Now our first question is from Julie in Bellevue, and she says: “Christ Jesus instructed his disciples to pray for the recovery of the sick. What have you found to be the relationship between consistent prayer and healing what appeared to be hopeless situations?”

Diane: OK, thank you Julie. I think that the value of consistent prayer is that you are always ready to offer the reason of hope for healing. You’re just not distracted by what the world is offering in an estimate of healing of any particular disease or challenge. It is important for us to be ever ready, because we do come across people every day who have challenges. They may not come up to us and say, “Could you please give me Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy?” But what they’ll say is, “I’ve just been diagnosed with something incurable,” or “My marriage is on the rocks,” or something. But by telling you, they’re reaching out for this Christlike understanding that you have. Now that relationship to the idea of incurability, you know there’s no incurable problem, because there’s no incurable point of view. And what Christian Science teaches us is that in our thinking we can always turn to God in prayer, and that leads to an inspired thought with which we can, as Jesus did, rebuke the error, rebuke the disease as never having been required by God. God never requires someone to suffer. He never requires them to pass through the fire. That was a misconception of God at a certain time, but that is not the God that Jesus taught us to rely on and to love as Father-Mother. So with that consistent prayer, it becomes a natural way of thinking, and you do persist until you see the victory.

Rosalie: Joan from Seattle brings up another angle on this, and I think a number of the questions I’ve seen are people who are asking you to speak to their specific situations. Joan says: “You know, I don’t want to just hope, I want to be healed. Can you comment on this?”

Diane: I surely can, and Joan I promise you I know exactly what you’re talking about. In that situation with my brother where the first step for overcoming grief, the best I had was hope. But then thought moved to understanding. And it was the understanding that I really had known, but my thought was directed to a verse in Psalms and it’s Psalm 139: “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me” (verses 7-10 ). Now through all our years growing up together I was used to being the big sister and working very hard to make everything right. And here I was one point—I couldn’t get to him, I couldn’t make everything right. But that verse from Psalms where hope moved—where thought moved from hope to understanding—I realized that God was able to talk with him, to comfort him, to give him His word that would heal the upset or whatever pushed him to that point, and then move him along. So hope is a starting point, perhaps. Sometimes it’s the best we have. But it always moves thought along to understanding, to perfect peace—to healing.

Rosalie: Karen from Virginia says: “How should I use prayer to restore my hope, and to solve error’s claim that I am repeating a financial struggle over and over again? I’ve been working with a practitioner but I’m in the same unemployment and housing crisis that I was in exactly one year ago. It was resolved temporarily, but I need a complete healing. I’m not overspending, I’m just unemployed. Thank you.”

Diane: OK, Rosalie, do me a favor and read that first part again.

Rosalie: I will. “How should I use prayer to restore my hope and solve error’s claim that I am repeating a financial struggle over and over again?”

Diane: OK, I think that really, to me, is the sticking point here, perhaps, that you feel like you’re caught between a rock and a hard place. And I can tell you from experience, we do learn the same lessons over and over again. It’s just an opportunity to persist. When we do learn the lesson from a spiritual perspective that God is our Father-Mother, that He alone is giving us our next inspired ideas of how to go forward, how to make progress, what we do is we may hear financially sound suggestions and we weigh them out, but to make absolute progress, it is to take your next step directly from God. He is the source of every idea that you need. And you are not caught between a rock and a hard place. Your feet have been planted by God on the straight and narrow way where all is well. And so, what this requires, what we’re talking about here, is really a change of mind, a change of heart. Not to think of yourself as a matter mortal in a tough spot with no hope, waiting for the stock market to change, waiting for someone to give you a job. Your identity has already been established by God as capable, able, perfect, progressive. So that starting point is what’s so important.

Rosalie: Well, you know I was thinking, as you were talking, about a situation I heard about not too long ago. The person was desperate for food, and she had two small children, etc., and they were really down to their very last box of rice, and had been praying, and the little boy who was going to Sunday School had been praying. And a neighbor knocked on the door and said, “I’ve just come back from a family reunion and I have all this food. Would you like to have some?”

Diane: Oh, how lovely.

Rosalie: I guess what I’m leading up to here is that sometimes the solution isn’t a job or it isn’t even money. It may be something else, such as the neighbor who knocked on the door, or it may be someone who says I just have some temporary work. Or a friend of mine needed money for a household repair that needed to be made, and was approached by someone who just needed someone to get her groceries for her temporarily while she was not able to do so. And that little bit of money was exactly what met the needs for these repairs.

Diane: That’s it. Not outlining the outcome, but fully trusting divine Love, the God who is divine Love, to meet that need. You know, as you were talking, I was reminded when my husband and I were first married, he decided to go to graduate school. And it looked like a really good idea, he would get his Master’s in Business Administration. So to be a good accountant’s wife I bought a ledger. I was going to be taking care of the family finances, and we were going to be living on my salary. So the first month I lined up all the expenses, and I lined up the income, and I saw there was no way that income was going to meet the expenses. You know the first thing I did, was I threw the ledger out.

Rosalie: Good move.

Diane: I saw this was not going to be the way to do it. Partway through his studies from the Master’s program I really needed some clothes, and there didn’t seem to be money to go and buy some. A friend of mine who had changed sizes asked her husband to take the box of clothes that she had and bring them over to me because she felt that maybe I would enjoy having them. And when I opened the box of clothes they were all beautiful designer clothes that I just would not have ordinarily have gone out and purchased, and it was such a blessing. But as much as I enjoyed the clothes, what I was most grateful for was seeing the love that my friend had thought—that love expression. She couldn’t have just had the idea without expressing it--it was expressed. And there was a better sense of supply and the reaffirmation of Love’s constant care.

Rosalie: Yes, I think it’s very important when those good things happen to trace them all the way back to their source, which has a divine impulsion that has its roots in well, basically the Christ, which is God’s message of love to each of us.

Diane: That’s right, and to magnify that gratitude, and to acknowledge its source. I think it would be wonderful if, as good is in our experience—I know sometimes I just find myself pausing right in the middle even of a grocery store and just saying, “God, can you be any greater?!”

Rosalie: Now this is from David, who’s writing from Alamo, California: “Isn’t it true that my only hope is to see more clearly my eternal identity as an expression of God? Whenever I see myself as mortal, I see an aging person who is despised by many since people don’t seem to like to see old people that are struggling with challenges. As a mortal, sometimes I’m ashamed to walk into a church building because of my challenges. Isn’t my only hope that all of it is a lie, and God is with me, even if I’m too ashamed to go into a church building?”

Diane: Well, I’m going to take that last part of that first. That idea of—and I’m just talking about one’s own thinking—this idea that to go into a church you have to look a certain way, talk a certain way, is just absolutely illegitimate. I had the experience of being in a car accident, and when I got home from a Christian Science nursing facility I really wanted to go to church. And the fact that I was in a wheelchair and could only sit at a slightly reclined angle, my desire to be in church to hear the Word of God—you know in the Christian Science Church silent prayer is offered for the congregation, and I just wanted that support and love. Be very careful as to what you set down as reasons or excuses for not making progress, for not being where you feel is in your best interest. It’s just so important. Church is where we should be. That’s where our brothers and sisters pray with us and rejoice over us, and that’s what you should expect when you go to church. As far as the idea of identity, remember you don’t have two identities. Two things cannot occupy the same space. You have been made in God’s image and likeness, perfect, faultless, flawless, blameless, lacking no essential element, complete, whole, pure. When we work to know that, and then go about demonstrating it, you’re already starting from the standpoint of present spiritual perfection. How we relate to others is really an extension of how we think about ourselves. So the work first--it’s charity begins at home, it begins with our own consciousness. How are we seeing ourselves? We have a marvelous member at our church who would be considered advanced in years, and is as spry and vibrant and vital—and it’s not because matter gives her its permission or because she looks to matter to define who she is—but just there’s this clear understanding of what it means to be the child of God, the daughter of the King. And that’s what she demonstrates and brings to the table every week, and it is inspiring.

Rosalie: Maybe we should talk a little bit about matter and Spirit here, and differentiate, because many of our listeners may believe that we’re composed of a combination of the two.

Diane: Sure, sure. When you think about it, that is humanly reasonable. That idea is put before us constantly in the media, in magazines, that we are material, or maybe better, matter and spirit combined. But I love what Christian Science teaches about God is a Spirit, and that we as His children are spiritual. That is our eternal nature, and with that fact we can overcome the challenges that might look so solid as matter. But the fact that we can heal, that we can overcome these material pictures, proves to us that Spirit is real. To it belongs all infinite power and presence. And that matter—and here’s a big concept—but that matter is an illusion, that it’s that which seems to be, but is not. And I’ll go right back to when I started talking today, sitting on the bed, that long tunnel that I just felt I was falling down, this huge black hole, that seemed for the moment very real. But it wasn’t. There was no tunnel in the middle of the bed. It is an illusion and any voice or vote or victim of matter that would claim to be so, that is an illusion, and the good news is that it can be healed. Jesus said that he had overcome the world and his teachings teach us how to overcome that worldly, material perception. A little while ago in my office—a couple of months ago—the thought occurred to me that long before we ever heard a material explanation of life, we had the spiritual education written in our heart with the pen of an angel and the point of a diamond, as the Bible says. And it’s to that spiritual education that we continually resort through prayer.

Rosalie: Yeah, that’s really the only education that there is, in a sense. We are led to believe that we are material beings who are going through an age process and some kind of health process, but to the extent that we can realize our real, spiritual nature—which is what really was the basis of Jesus’ healing work, wasn’t it?

Diane: Yeah, it really is.

Rosalie: That’s going to help us get beyond the material birth, age, decline syndrome, so to speak.

Diane: Yes, incurable disease. You know, it’s interesting, a couple of years ago I heard a program ever so briefly, where a doctor was saying that when anyone gets a diagnosis of incurability, their first response is, “No, that’s not true. That’s not real. That’s not me.” And he said, “Then of course, that’s step one,” is denial, and so then he said, “We have to move them past that, to acceptance.” And I found myself just sort of cheering at the television set, going, “No, no, no, stick with the denial!” But that he pointed out that everyone’s innate, gut reaction is to say, “No” and to deny it, and I thought, “Oh, boy.”

Rosalie: There’s a truth in that.

Diane: Yes.

Rosalie: Now Lauren from San Jose, California, says: “I’m 57 years old, and I’m living on disability income, and am heavily in debt. I’ve been trying to better myself by attending courses at a local university. However, recently I’ve been turned down by three graduate programs. I suspect that the reason is that I’m considered too old or too disabled. I really believe that I have a purpose and a lot to contribute and have a divine birthright to right livelihood and abundance, including financial supply. However, after the recent turndowns I have begun to be discouraged and despair—that is, I am losing hope. I’m listening to God for guidance but I don’t at present feel any divine guidance. Is there really hope? What do I need to do?”

Diane: There is, Lauren, and don’t change your method. Your first method was right. Persist, keep going. Don’t let the world do your thinking for you. You were right when you were talking about pursuing the degree. That is progressive, that’s normal. That is Spirit’s impulsion. You may think you had that great idea, but that was really an inspiration of God to go forward, keep going. You are not too old. You think of these marvelous individuals we know. The first one that comes to thought is Grandma Moses. I think she started painting, wasn’t it at 88?

Rosalie: Something like that.

Diane: Yeah, and became world renown. We’re just never too old. That’s a very common excuse. It’s not your thinking, and don’t let the world do your thinking for you. You do have a purpose and you do have a mission and you do have a calling. Each one of us has been called by God to express Him, to express Life, vitality, spontaneity, goodness, grace. You keep going because you are right, and I think it was Churchill who said, “When you’re right you never give in, never give in, never give in.” So you’re absolutely right, Lauren. God is blessing you. One of the definitions of angels in Science and Health—it’s: “God’s thoughts passing to man; spiritual intuitions, pure and perfect” (581 ). Now God’s thoughts are constantly passing to you—loving, shepherding, comforting, directing, guiding you. And you don’t want to make this an intellectual exercise. Listen with your heart. You’re the daughter of God, and all good is what He sets before you every single day. The Bible tells us, “God is rejoicing over you with singing” (see Zeph. 3:17 ), and as He is pleased with you, you can be pleased with you also.

Rosalie: Right. Another thing I was thinking about is that taking some time to be grateful can be really helpful. There’s a hymn that says, “Gratitude is riches, / complaint is poverty” (No. 249 ), and one of the things that happens when you sit down to be grateful is that it kind of gets the little fires of hope a little bit more fuel. And sometimes you see a bird and you say, “Well, I’m grateful that there’s a bird” or you see a tree, “I’m grateful that there’s a tree.” Whatever you can see—if you have a nice pen or a window or anything, just spend some time each day being grateful, and it will get easier each time and you will see more things each time. And gradually, though, work your way around to your spiritual identity—“I’m grateful that I am God’s idea. I’m grateful that I am the child of Love. I’m grateful that God loves me.” And just keep working your way up. It’s extremely energizing, and it also is very strengthening, and it just totally changes everything.

Diane: It surely does. I know of one case when I was a Christian Science nurse, the situation had been diagnosed as incurable and the patient’s healing began by being grateful for the doorknob that enabled the nurses to come in and out. It doesn’t sound like much but it changed her life. It was the beginning of this wonderful healing.

Rosalie: Exactly. And I think that’s one of the things that we sometimes overlook because we’re sort of trained to look for big things to be grateful for. But actually if you start with the small things, there’s just a billion of them.

Diane: That’s right.

Rosalie: You get so involved in it that you start to forget the discouragement and things like that.

Diane: Well, you know the Bible also tells us that God’s compassions and mercies are new every morning (see Lam. 3:22, 23 )—every morning! And I will say to people, you know, “We’re the silly geese if we insist on taking the trials or the grief of yesterday into today, when God is putting good before us constantly.”

Rosalie: Right. This is from Deanna in Wilmington, North Carolina, who says: “I’ve been in many cities over the past year and have seen many types of homelessness. I keep praying for each as I see them individually, and I pray to discern what to do each time. The type of discernment seems to work on an individual basis, but I’m challenged with praying for the worldly idea of homelessness. Many have deemed this hopeless. What ideas do you have on this worldly issue?”

Diane: Yes, well, I think the first thing is we look at a challenge and then we think it’s a big or little challenge. We assign it some kind of character. I think it really goes back to that first quote that we talked about that God so loved the world that He gave His son to show us the way. Jesus showed us how to feed a multitude, and if we insist on looking for the solution within standard methods that haven’t worked, but we keep doing them again and again. The demand is really for us to go up higher in our thinking and say, “Father, how would You have us proceed?” And take this inspired idea from Spirit, which is infinite, rather than from dollars and sense. That idea of Spirit being infinite and supplying us with every idea we need, is not too metaphysical to be practical. The old ways haven’t been working. We hear of graft and corruption with food and housing materials that are perhaps sent overseas to help others, and it really has to get back to those first two commandments: Love God, and love man—love your neighbor as yourself, and love him enough to let him have the materials that are intended for him.

Rosalie: Right. Well, I love in Psalm 23 where it says, “The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want” and I think that we can apply that to everyone in the world, that no one can want. The Lord is their shepherd, they shall not want.

Diane: That’s it, that’s it. You know, I had that actually opened as a resource to share today. In the Amplified Bible, that verse reads: “The Lord is my shepherd, to feed, guide, and shield me. I shall not lack.” And that whole psalm as it’s written there is just so inspiring, and it is a promise. It’s the Word of God, the law of God: “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in lack.”

Rosalie: Right. Now Jayna from Baltimore, Maryland says: “Diane, can you talk about how to deal with discouragement which attempts to destroy our hope, especially when we are dealing with something that appears to be a persistent problem?”

Diane: I think what we could talk about here is the fact that what Mrs. Eddy discovered as she studied the Bible, all these different names or synonyms for God. And one that she came upon was that God is Mind. The verse says, “[God] is in one mind, and who can turn him?” (Job 23:13 ). Now man as the expression of that Mind doesn’t have, doesn’t really belong to Mind, God, or you as the expression of Mind, that misconception of discouragement. Don’t wrap your arms around it as yours. It may be humanly reasonable, but it’s not divinely natural. You have the Mind that was in Christ Jesus—that was hopeful, spiritually astute, relied constantly on God, Mind, for direction, guidance. And so there’s a better way to think, and it’s helpful not to wrap your arms around it and think, “My discouragement.” The only thing that you can have must first belong to God before it can belong to you.

Rosalie: So basically you can have love and you can have joy but you can’t have discouragement and sorrow.

Diane: You can’t. It’s like a borrowed appearance. When the youngster comes to your door at Halloween dressed as the devil, you know he’s not the devil—that’s a borrowed appearance. It’s the same thing. It’s part of the trapping of mortal mind’s assessment of man that he can be spiritual and material. That he can be positive and negative. That he can fluctuate between these two concepts of man. But when we use that word have, it’s really important—just compare it: Now does God have this as a quality of His Mind? And the answer would be “no.”

Rosalie: Now by man, when we’re talking about man, we’re really talking about the male and female of God’s creating, not just about men, right?

Diane: Right, right, oh yes!

Rosalie: Don’t want any of our listeners to feel left out of this.

Diane: Thank you for clarifying that.

Rosalie: Now this is a question from someone in Maine who says: “I’ve been praying for over a year with practitioners and hoping for a healing of arthritis. But every time I seem to make progress the pain throws me back into discouragement. How do I get past the pain to see the healing of this so-called incurable disease?”

Diane: I think the one thing is, don’t give up the spiritual real estate that you’ve gained. The truth that you have seen, that you have rested in, taken comfort from, you wouldn’t throw that all away, would you, based on a material estimate of man? You just keep going. And I would just encourage you not to look back over your shoulder. I, as a youngster, had migraine headaches for thirteen years, but I never realized that it had been thirteen years when that healing took place. They had been chronic, and each time my mother and I would pray together. She would read me passages from the Bible or the Hymnal became just a favorite companion of inspiration, and it would be healed. And then I would just go on, pick up my life, and continue on with family and friends and activities and school. And each time that that challenge came, we would just start at it as if it was brand new. We didn’t say, “Oh, this is happening every six months,” or whatever. There was just no timetable assigned to it. And when that healing took place of the chronic migraines, it was then that we looked back and said, Oh we’ve been at this—but we always took inventory of the lessons that were being learned. I never gave up. We never relinquished those.

Rosalie: Well, the other thing I wanted to mention is that if, after the chat, you go to spirituality.com’s home page and you go into the search function and type in “arthritis” you’ll find a couple of—well, actually more than a couple—of healings that people have had through relying on Christian Science, and they may be helpful to you. And also there have been other healings that have been published in the Christian Science periodicals over the years, but those ones that are actually on the website might be a good place to get started.

Diane: Good point, thank you.

Rosalie: And there are really a number of—for example the definition of man in Science and Health. Diane, don’t you think that would be a good thing to really ponder deeply, because there Mrs. Eddy makes so clear that man “is not made up of brain, blood, bones, and other material elements” (475 )? And sometimes these things like arthritis not only sort of define us as having material elements, but also tie into age and heredity, and so forth. Science and Health also has some very helpful and useful things about heredity.

Diane: That’s exactly right, Rosalie. I had an experience where, after a car accident, my back was broken in two places, there were head injuries, and the prognosis was that I would never be physically up and doing. There was a great concern about paralysis and diminished mental capacity—and that was if I lived. I was able to, with the help and prayers of a Christian Science practitioner, and a friend of mine who came to stay with me, I was able to explain to a doctor in a major medical center in Baltimore why I wanted to leave. I was able to sign myself out, and go to a Christian Science nursing facility. There I became fully conscious, and my husband explained to me what had happened. I denied the material evidence of a broken back and head injuries, and for the three weeks that I was at the Christian Science nursing facility, it was never about healing a broken back or head injuries. My work, my prayers, the prayers of the practitioner, were all about gaining a better understanding of God as Life, and me as a reflection, an expression, of that divine Life. It was a joyous time. We weren’t trying to play beat the clock or anything like that. It wasn’t about healing matter at all. It was about learning and discerning the divine Life that was the only life I had, that was concrete. I was inseparable from God and rejoicing in that truth. Every day there was progress and a more normal sense of life, of the present sense of things, was expressed. So in that way I would really encourage individuals listening today not to be so focused on healing a material problem, but just for the joy of it, just for the love of it, maintain your dialogue with God, and see what He has to tell you through sharing His ideas about Him as Life, and about your life, vitality, and activity.

Rosalie: You know, I think that’s such an excellent point. While you were talking I was thinking about a statement from Mrs. Eddy which I’m quoting from memory: “Entirely separate from the belief and dream of material living, is the Life divine” (14 ). And I think that sense of really recognizing that you never were a material being, there was never a moment when God thought of you as material, or that you could be thinking of yourself actually as material, that you really always have been inseparable from God, and so there isn’t any place where disease or breakdown of any kind can get in there and begin to take place. You’ve never been there—never been there, never done that.

Diane: That’s right. Mrs. Eddy says, I believe it’s in her book No and Yes, “Jesus’ true and conscious being never left heaven for earth” (36 ). I was working with that at the same time. My true and conscious being had never left heaven for earth. God had planted my feet on the straight and narrow way, and if there were storm clouds or lessons to learn, that was all right. But I knew where I was in my at-one-ment with Him, with God.

Rosalie: And I think sometimes, even if it appears that God isn’t present, it’s very important to just recognize that because God is infinite, there is no place where you can be away from Him. What you said earlier from Psalm 139: “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?” God is everywhere, whether or not we can actually feel that presence, it is there guiding us and protecting us.

Diane: That’s it. Even if we need to say, okay, now why would this be true? You can either think of healings that you have had, or you can rejoice in the healings that you’re reading in The Christian Science Journal and the Christian Science Sentinel. You can rejoice in the healings that you hear at the Wednesday evening church services because they are proof that God is ever present. And you have a concrete relationship with Him that you can rely on. And if it’s by faith or hope or trust in the beginning, thank God that you have those qualities to lean on, and to be a foundation from which you can proceed. Thank God you’re on your way.

Rosalie: Well, you know your comment about the Wednesday evening meetings is so helpful because I was thinking as you were speaking that, in a way, if you’re dealing with something that’s very discouraging, every healing you read about in a Christian Science magazine or on spirituality.com or hear at a church service, or from a friend, every single one of those is proof that you, also, can be healed, because they rest on divine law, on a law that is established, that actually was the basis for Jesus’ healings. And so every time you hear a healing, you can rejoice in that and say, “This also is true for me.”

Diane: That’s it and the truth that is shared with you in that conversation, that conversation is changing the dynamics of world thought.

Rosalie: Right.

Diane: It’s just relieving material thinking from the standpoint that it is a power to voice or create a law for you, when it is not.

Rosalie: Right. Now we’ve got a couple of tricky questions here. And so I thought we’d do the two of them together. This is from Caroline in London. She says: “I’ve been told I have not one, but possibly two incurable illnesses. Without Christian Science I would have given up all hope. Healing is taking its time but I’m learning much along the way, and feel that at least one of these difficulties is responding, and I feel extremely well. Today when I had a checkup I was told all sorts of scary things which might happen if I don’t take medication. Also, tests are scheduled for next month to ascertain the situation. Although I feel I am many times better than last year, I am sure these tests will prove healing is well on its way, but I admit it’s taking awhile to completely sort out, and sometimes confidence can take a knock when I’m told it is dangerous not to take medication. Have you any ideas to bolster confidence in a situation like this? Thank you.”

Diane: I love where Mrs. Eddy says, “The confidence inspired by Science lies in the fact that Truth is real and error is unreal” (Science and Health, 368 ). In knowing that, you’re just making the separation that any element of matter could make or report a condition for you. There is just nothing in your thought, there is no incurable point of view, so thought can move in a more spiritual way. You can identify yourself exclusively as God’s idea expressed, that perfection we talked about before, and that definition of perfect. I find that that is a very useful definition to memorize. And remember that time is not an element in healing. It’s all about spiritual understanding.

Rosalie: And I think on the medication front, rather than focusing on not taking it, because that might not be good at this stage of the game, let yourself unfold spiritually, and there will come a point where it will be natural to take the right step.

Diane: That’s exactly right. Christian Science does not promote human will. As that understanding grows, the tendency or the inclination to use material means, it just falls away, but there’s no element of human will in it.

Rosalie: Right, and there’s no desire on anyone’s part to encourage you to do something that might not be good for you.

Diane: Well, that’s it, because you do have to things understandingly, that’s the thing.

Rosalie: Now we’ve got another question. This is Marty from Maple Grove, Minnesota, who is also talking about medication: “Can you address what steps one should take to overcome the fear of stopping medication for mental illness? I have been taking an antidepressant for over a year, and now that I have no health insurance I can’t afford to continue. I feel my faith in Christian Science is not strong enough to get me through the withdrawal. What would you suggest I read, write, learn about, in order to help my issue?”

Diane: Well, I think we started to talk about that a little bit, Marty, in terms of knowing the motive for why you’re doing something. If it’s a question of finances, it might be useful to check out what other options are available to you in terms of financial assistance and financial help. In Christian Science every progressive step—it really does not have an element of fear. And that’s what we need to be alert to—that thought that you could be afraid. God is governing every progressive step that you’re taking, every progressive decision that you are making, and fear is not an element of that spiritual progress. So, again, you have the mind that was in Christ Jesus, and that mind was not afraid.

Rosalie: Right, and while there’s any question of uncertainty, it’s good to follow the rules.

Diane: Yes, I mean because we do have to do this understanding our spiritual nature, our at-one-ment with God. Wisdom does govern, yes.

Rosalie: Right. Now Marilyn from Indianapolis is writing—and this is a question that we’ll be able to spend a little time on maybe: “Intellectually, I understand the concept of not being material, but I don’t quite get it. Can I have hope in healing while I’m trying to embrace this concept?”

Diane: Oh sure! Yes, you can. And the wonderful thing about consciousness is that it is not divided or subdivided into intellectual or sort of heartfelt, that you really grab something. When you see a statement of Truth, it is yours. It’s like money in the bank, it’s yours, and you can use it as a foundation of comfort and inspiration and healing. So that’s the first point that I wanted to bring up, that Christian Science is not an intellectual exercise. It’s not how much you can quote. It’s just “Father, what is my premise here, what would You have me know?” And then working with the answer that you’re given, and drawing proper conclusions from it.

Rosalie: Nicole from Texas says: “I have been dealing with a severe belief of acne for the past year, that I’ve been working with a practitioner for awhile. I’ve been learning that the problem is really not my skin—like you mentioned, not the physical problem but something deeper. I keep finding more and more issues that need healing that might be underlying the skin condition, but it’s hard not to give up hope that the healing of my character will be shown physically, and my skin will clear up and not leave scars. Please comment on how I can stay clear in my thought when so many so-called problems keep popping up?”

Diane: Well I would be, I think, grateful for those new views of God and your relationship to Him that you’re gaining. Really, that gain is not matter-driven. You’re not knowing the Truth because a boatload of material claims is forcing you to go to God and do your study. God is right there as a present help. He inspires our thinking. He calls it forward to step out from the material view of things, to go up higher, to hear His Word and understand His law, so, those new views that you are gaining, that’s a wonderful thing. Don’t give matter any ounce of credit for having any intelligence to push you in that direction. Matter can’t make you do anything.

Rosalie: Right. Bonnie from Illinois is saying: “Would you repeat your definition of perfect?”

Diane: Oh, sure! It’s faultless, flawless, blameless, lacking no essential element, complete, whole, pure, finished. And it’s really worth the effort to take an unabridged dictionary and open it to that word perfect and find the definitions there that really speak to you, and memorize them, because with that truth in your pocket, it is a resource, it’s a lens through which you can see things.

Rosalie: This is from someone in Indianapolis, Indiana, who says: “Yes, God will help you, but when you pray and pray and the bad still remains, how can you possibly feel hope? To receive God’s grace, you have to change. That is what repent means. But if you can’t change, then it would follow that there is no hope. What would you advise?”

Diane: Well, we wouldn’t have—starting with the last part first—we wouldn’t have this concept of repentance which means change of heart, or change of mind, we wouldn’t have that in our understanding, or it wouldn’t be a command, if it weren’t possible. It is possible to change our mind. It is possible to gain fresh, new views, ways of thinking about things. We’re all not sitting in our first-grade desk anymore. We agreed at some point to learn those lessons and to move on. So we all have that capacity, and we’ve all had demonstrations by which we have made that progress. So repentance is a present possibility. But don’t set up any preconceived ideas of how this healing is going to take place. I think of the woman who was in a large crowd, and Jesus was speaking, and she thought, “If I can only touch the hem of his garment, I’ll be healed.” And for years and years I thought, “Oh, that was such a marvelous expression of humility, that she would bow before the Christ, Truth, to acknowledge his healing message.” And then a couple of years ago I saw it a little differently. Here she was in a huge crowd, and the most impossible thing that she could maybe see to do would be to get close to Jesus, and to bow before him. And I thought, “Now wait a minute, who made that condition for her? God never said, “Here’s a hoop, you’ve got to jump through it.” And so I really did learn a lesson in that regard--that we should be very careful what conditions we say are necessary for a healing to take place. There’s a statement in the Bible in Isaiah that I love in this regard. It’s a statement of promise and direction. The direction, “Fear thou not,” the promise, “for I am with thee.” The direction: “Be not dismayed,” and the promise, “For I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness” (41:10 ).

Rosalie: I think that’s very helpful and very inspiring. I also wanted to mention for people who have been sort of struggling for awhile, Mrs. Eddy in her Miscellaneous Writings has a wonderful article called, “The Way” (355-359). In that article she spells out three sort of stages of thought. The first is self-knowledge, the second is humility, and then the last is love, and these are stages of mental growth. And she says that: “The third stage of mental growth is manifested in love, the greatest of all stages and states of being; love that is irrespective of self, rank, or following” (357 ). It’s a very, very helpful article. It’s not very long, but it has a great deal of substance in it. If you have been struggling for awhile, exploring those stages might aid you in getting past some of the obstacles.

Diane: That’s great. That is true, and I have worked with that article in my life, too. Good point.

Rosalie: I love that one, yes. Now, Eric from Pennsylvania says: “How can I keep hope when I see others progressing through problems without Christian Science, yet I continue to struggle by relying on Christian Science?”

Diane: Eric, I can appreciate what your question is. Think about what you are gaining. You’re not going to have just a physical healing or a resolution of some kind. The result in Christian Science is a greater understanding of God. And in terms that you will never have to learn those lessons again. You may learn deeper aspects of the lesson, but it’s just keep going, because it’s so worth it. When the demonstration is made in Christian Science and you gain that spiritual understanding, it provides you a stronger, firmer, broader foundation upon which to stand. It is so worth the effort. The other thing is, was it Shakespeare who said, “Comparisons are odious”?

Rosalie: Yes.

Diane: It really is so helpful to discipline thought not to look to the left or the right. That is such a temptation—to see how others are doing it or what others are doing. This walk—it’s an individual walk. The journey, we’re grateful for those that we companion with, but at the end of the day it’s between you and the Father. Have just a great sense of respect for that relationship. God knows you. He made you. He maintains you. He rejoices over you every day with singing, as we said earlier. What we want to hear at the end of the night when we put our head down on the pillow is our Father’s “Well done, good and faithful servant” (Matt. 25:21 ). And that blessing, that benediction, it is individual, and it’s so special—and just keep going.

Rosalie: This is from Virtue from Texas: “I know someone who is fledgling in their understanding of God as Life. In recent months people and animals who were close to them have passed on, and now this person wants to give up on God. They have lost hope that there will be a healing, when asked for, but is not realized. What do I say to this dear one?”

Diane: Well, Virtue, I think the one thing that I have really come to appreciate in recent years about life, is that life is the continuity of good. It’s not limited to this present sense of existence. When one goes on, we still think of that one very, very dearly. But I find that we make a mistake if we think, or even speak, of that one in the past tense. Their life has not ended. They are still reflecting God as Life. They are still expressing intelligence and spontaneity and good and joy. Mrs. Eddy has a marvelous poem, and it’s not an easy one. You’d have to spend maybe some time with it. But it’s called “Meeting of My Departed Mother and Husband” (Miscellaneous Writings, 385-387). And Mrs. Eddy does say also there’s that moment in what we call the vestibule in Christian Science where those who are going on can see those who have gone on before. And she says they may call the name of the one that is there to greet them (see Science and Health, 75-76 ). In my experience in nursing and my experience in being with family members who were passing, I have found that to be the case. I’ve also found that this idea of death and passing is one that, with an understanding of God and man’s relationship, that can be healed and overcome. Raising the dead in the early Christian era, the first three centuries, was not an unusual event. But it’s taken on sort of a mystical or even spooky sense where we’re not as bold in declaring what Life is. In a number of cases I have been with those who were at that point in the vestibule, and just putting an arm around them and reminding them that their life is God, and that they are ever the expression of God, and there has been a rallying and a restoration. Years ago I had a patient actually kicked out of hospice because she didn’t die in a certain prescribed time. And when I went to see her before I agreed to take the case, I said to her point blank, “Which door are you planning on going out of? Are you planning on walking out of the front door or going out the back door?” And she said, “No, I’m going to walk out the front door.” And I said, “Fine, I’ll take the case.” And four days later she was kicked out because she didn’t pass away, and she went on to resume a normal life with a couple more good years there. So we don’t need to be afraid to face this belief of death and say, “No, Life is the continuity of good.” And we have that to understand and to demonstrate and to encourage others with that statement of Truth.

Rosalie: Thank you. Now we’ve got just a few more questions. Will you stay with us?

Diane: Oh, I’d love it. Sure.

Rosalie: This is Melanie from Cleveland. She says: “This thought recently gave me renewed hope. Simply understanding that I am loved and being supported and advocated for in my movement forward. Certainly no one had more trials than Job, and he says, ‘I know that my redeemer liveth’ (19:25 ). Even now ‘my witness is in heaven’ (16:19 ). Can you explain this?”

Diane: Oh, yeah. No matter what the material picture looked like, no matter how his friends tried to help him in understanding these trials, his focus was on his Father-Mother God. And that he knew, in essence, that one with God is a majority. And he wasn’t going to move from that point. And his thought didn’t change, his understanding didn’t change. He let the false belief change. Mrs. Eddy gives a definition of fan in the “Glossary” ofScience and Health where she says, The fan is the “Separator of fable from fact” (586 ). And what I love, what is moved off there, is the fable, and the fact remains.

Rosalie: That’s very helpful. Now this is from Mitzi in Jerseyville: “Diane, this has been such a helpful chat. Whenever I think of hope I think of what Paul says in Romans, chapter 15, verse 13 : ‘Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.’ That God of hope is with us all.”

Diane: That is marvelous. I was thinking as you read that, that’s a statement of law, and it’s a statement of promise. We’ve talked about several Bible verses today. That’s only the tip of the iceberg as far as describing God is the hope of His people. And thank God that’s true.

Rosalie: Yes. Now this is Kim from Ellicott City, Maryland. She says: “In Science and Health Mrs. Eddy writes: ‘When the real is attained, which is announced by Science, joy is no longer a trembler, nor is hope a cheat’ (298 ). It seems to me she is saying that what’s truly real is all we could ever hope for. How can we most rapidly attain the real?”

Diane: I think first of all by realizing that it is the real, the true, and the only. Wherever there is the temptation to believe in dualism or two different creations, that’s what we need to correct. The spiritual is the real, the true, and the only. And the material is the false. It’s a misconception or a misstatement of what is true. It doesn’t have standing. It doesn’t have authority. It doesn’t have power or substance.

Rosalie: This is a very nice note to end on. It’s from Cathy from Sacramento, California: “I was in a bad head-on collision on Highway 50 in 1967. I was eighteen at the time. Our practitioner was called when we reached the hospital. The doctors said I had a broken jaw. I was transported to Sacramento Mercy Hospital. I was treated, and left the hospital one week later. The doctor said that it was because of my age that I healed so quickly. No, it was our practitioner and God guiding the doctor’s hands and healing me. I am now sixty-one and still studying Christian Science. My gram was First Reader in the Monterey Church from 1956 to 1959. Thanks for your chat.”

Diane: Oh, that’s marvelous. Thank you so much for sharing that. That’s great. And the lessons, your willingness to persist in an understanding of life as Spirit. You did that work, you learned, you grew, and you’ve had those lessons with you all these years. That’s marvelous.

Rosalie: Well, thank you so much for all of your questions. And I wonder, Diane, if you’ve got some closing thoughts?

Diane: I do, and I would like to share a statement that Mrs. Eddy makes, and whether we’re looking for hope during a financial challenge or a physical challenge, an emotional challenge, I love this statement where Mrs. Eddy writes in her Miscellaneous Writings: “The Psalmist saith: ‘He shall give His angels charge over thee.’ ” Then Mrs. Eddy explains, “God gives you His spiritual ideas, and in turn, they give you daily supplies. Never ask for to-morrow: it is enough that divine Love is an ever-present help; and if you wait, never doubting, you will have all you need every moment. What a glorious inheritance is given to us through the understanding of omnipresent Love! More we cannot ask: more we do not want: more we cannot have. This sweet assurance is the ‘Peace, be still’ to all human fears, to suffering of every sort” (306-307 ).

Rosalie: Well, thank you Diane, that’s a lovely note to end on, and again many thanks for being with us today.

Diane: Oh, loved it, thank you, Rosalie.

Rosalie: Today’s guest was Diane Marrapodi, a practitioner and teacher of Christian Science from Forest Hill, Maryland.