A spiritual approach to care-giving

In this lively chat, Ginny Luedeman and Cate Vincent talk about the joy of care-giving and ways that people who are looking after loved ones can keep their thoughts uplifted even when a situation seems tedious and dreary. They offer ways through which patients can resist resentment toward their caregivers, and also address the importance of the caregiver spending time on his/her own spiritual refreshment.

Other questions include how to maintain spiritual clarity when the one being cared for isn't a Christian Scientist and may even claim he/she doesn't believe in God. Dealing with pressures and concern from family members, the function of nursing facilities for Christian Scientists, and rejection of non-medical forms of treatment are among other subjects covered.

The transcribed text has been edited for clarity.

Rosalie Dunbar: Hello, everyone. Welcome to a spirituality.com question and answer audio event. My name is Rosalie Dunbar, and I’ll be your host for the next hour. Our topic today is “A spiritual approach to care-giving,” and we have two guests—Ginny Luedeman, a practitioner and teacher of Christian Science who lives in Salem, Oregon in the United States; and Cate Vincent, a Christian Science nurse, who lives in Weare Giffard, County Devon, in England. Both have been in their respective professions over thirty years so they have a lot of experience with healing and care-giving. Ginny’s a member of the Christian Science Board of Lectureship and has traveled to many parts of the world in that activity. Cate took some breaks from being a Christian Science nurse to manage an American company in Russia to teach business seminars around the world, and to start several businesses. She also wrote a book about a canoe trip down the Missouri River. Ladies, would you like to share some thoughts to get us started?

Ginny Luedeman: Yeah. Welcome, everybody who’s listening, and thank you, Rosalie, for this opportunity—this is Ginny. I love the title—“A spiritual approach to care-giving,” and I find that approach brings practical solutions. And they can take lots of different forms. But, for me, this whole existence—this life—is really about long-term care, whether we’re dealing with seniors or teenagers or community situations, or today, the whole world seems to need a lot of care-giving. I learned a lesson when I was on a flight. I didn’t used to like to fly. I felt really trapped, and felt like I was away from all the things that I loved—kind of like a care-giving situation can make you feel like you’re away from the comfort zone. I was about an hour away from home, and I was just really feeling restless. I looked out the window. It was dark and I could see all the homes down below with the lights on and twinkly. It just looked like a Peter Pan scene. It was really neat. I thought, “Oh, I just wish I was there. I wish I was home.” And I stopped and listened in this kind of restless feeling. And it came to my thought from God—a real clear idea—“Do you think there’s more of me there in those homes than there is right where you are?” And a passage fromScience and Health with Key to the Scriptures, written by Mary Baker Eddy, a book I study in conjunction with the Bible, came to my thought. And it’s on page 494 . It said: “. . . to all mankind and in every hour, divine Love supplies all good.” And I thought, that really applies to any situation—care-giving, whatever, on the airplane—that all the good that I hope someday or in some moment to feel, is actually in that moment. And I found that a real powerful idea. Before we started, Cate and I were talking, because she had the exact same message that I did, only I’ll let her share the oxygen-mask idea.

Cate Vincent: Well, just before we got together this morning, Ginny and I were chatting, and she said, “Now I want to explain that when you’re on an airplane, the oxygen mask is shown, and they always say, ‘Now, if you’re traveling with a small child, put your own oxygen mask on first, and then help your child.’ ” And Ginny mentioned that, and I said, “Ginny, I’m looking at a yellow card right here in front of me. I wrote that down, because I think that’s so important for care-givers.” They need to take care of themselves. It’s very important.

Ginny: It’s tempting, isn’t it Cate, to jump right in and think that we’re just at the mercy of whatever comes along. But we have the right—you can’t love your neighbor as yourself, if you don’t start with yourself. For me, that’s a daily lesson in prayer and really setting my thought, before I take on other people’s situations.

Cate: That’s right. Ginny, the reason that I was really happy to be part of this chat was because I simply don’t want anyone to miss the opportunity of a lifetime, and that is to be part of healing—to be part of the patient’s progress. I mean, gee, that’s just a blessing. I’ve learned over thirty years that nursing can be really delightful. It can be joy-filled, it can be buoyant, it can be fun. But, there are challenges. In fact, there are some days when I wish my job were to say, “Welcome to Walmart. Would you like a cart?” So I can understand how someone just wouldn’t want the responsibility of care-giving. Or they just don’t want to deal with problems anymore. And, let’s face it, it’s hard work. But, you know, I’m learning that when we turn to God to guide us, to guard us, to lead, to know the next right step, that we can count on His leading us into all goodness and bounty and grace. You know, in Christian Science, I learned to turn “things into thoughts.” We’re going to try to practice that today on this call. What that does is, it turns stumbling blocks into stepping stones. Who wouldn’t want to do that? So, I think it’s a gift that we’re giving—this care-giving business.

You know, I looked up care-giving. One definition is: Care is “to hold as dear.” That’s really all we’re doing. And the giving part means—in the dictionary it says giving means: “freely transfer—“freely transfer” something. So that’s what our care-giving is all about. You know, I’m surprised folks aren’t really just lining up to take care of each other. Some Christian Science churches have workshops—they call them—caring for each other, where they learn to follow the Good Samaritan’s example from Luke in the Bible. These workshops are always full. I think that people want to be better care-givers. Deep down, I think we all want to care for each other better. Sometimes we need a little practice and a little encouragement, and that’s what we’re here today for.

Rosalie: OK, well, let’s start answering questions because we have a lot of them. One of the questions is: “What can you say to help someone who is endeavoring to live Christian Science, while providing needed care for a loved one who has been undergoing intensive medical care for several years?”

Ginny: Well, we were told to just kind of jump in, but I think we’re both kind of trying to be polite here. So we may interrupt each other Cate, that’s OK I think.

Cate: That’s fine.

Ginny: I don’t think I see a distinction between love—whether you’re a Christian Scientist, and love if you’re some other denomination. To me love speaks in the most practical way in the way that it’s heard. So, care-giving, from my experience, can take all different kinds of forms. The main concept I hold to is that in every moment there’s something wonderful to discover. So, the one you’re caring for, and you, are holding hands, really to discover that the deep reality of that moment is health and is joy and is under the—really—government of divine Love. So, to me, it’s a journey that we’re taking to discover what’s already present—no matter whether you’re a student of Christian Science or not. In my big family, most of them aren’t students of Christian Science, but there’s lots of sharing of very solid, spiritual realities together.

Cate: You know, in the Christian Science Hymnal, Hymn No. 105 starts out by saying: “Help us to help each other, Lord.” It doesn’t say, “Help us to help the Christian Scientists.”

Rosalie: Right. Now, Wendy, who’s writing from Simi Valley, California, is asking a very practical question. She says: “How do I keep from being overwhelmed with the material functions of the body when giving care-giving?”

Cate: We all face that. We all face that. That’s what turning “things into thought” is all about, to me. I think when we take something like for example, a bed. Most care-giving rooms, care is given in a bed. When we turn that thought of a bed, a nursing bed, into the idea of comfort and support and a place for care—which is home—then we get a clearer sense of what we’re really doing when we’re caring for someone.

Ginny: That’s what I do, Cate. There’re points when you may not even feel a warm, wonderful thought about the person that you’re taking care of. We had such a situation with a father-in-law. The temptation I think, that is the most difficult, you wish they weren’t there sometimes—especially when they can’t take care of themselves at all, and you see the money going, and you’re thinking—but we can’t pray that somebody passes on. That wouldn’t be at all the kind of care-giving we’re in. But I had that feeling with my father-in-law, because he just couldn’t do anything for himself. He wasn’t a student of Christian Science but he was a good human being. And I didn’t know where to go with my thoughts. I think that’s when we run into trouble—like the question—where do we go with our thoughts? Well, I just thought, Well, I didn’t have to love him as a human being—that wasn’t what I was there for. But I was there, like you said, to find the spiritual qualities that God speaks through each one of us. Each one of us expresses the nature of God in spiritual qualities. And I could think of his strong hands. And I take a piece of paper and write down qualities. And I wrote down strength. He was tender to his son. I wrote down tenderness. And I really translated everything about his nature, his history, into qualities, and attributed those qualities to God, and I found a great sense of peace. And he did pass, but there was no longer any turmoil in my thought, or in his experience. I think if we can see beneath the surface. That is why I was saying this whole experience—this life here on earth—is about care-giving, looking deep, plunging, as Mrs. Eddy says in Science and Health, “plung[ing] beneath the material [sense] of things” to find the spiritual idea (see p. 313 ).

Cate: Oh, Ginny, that’s wonderful. Ginny, Mrs. Eddy also says this: “What we most need”—I mean she addresses it, she says: “What we most need is the prayer of fervent desire for growth in grace, expressed in patience, meekness, love, and good deeds” (p. 4 ). Those good deeds, done with the patience and meekness and love, that’s care-giving.

Ginny: Yeah. Even if you don’t feel it, you can want to feel it—that’s a prayer. You may not always feel it, but it’s OK if you don’t. You can want to.

Rosalie: Now, Daisy in Canada is asking, she says: “I look after my husband, bandaging a smelly wound. Sometimes I feel guilty that I cannot get past a sense of smell. It’s hard to see it as unreal.”

Cate: Daisy, I’m glad you brought that up. You know there are ways, just physically, to get rid of that smell. I’d love to tell you the tips that you can use in a room where you have that. First of all I have to tell you this, Daisy: You’re doing everything right. Just to be there, and being willing to do it, that’s a lovely thing.

Ginny: When I have something really that to all appearances is very unpleasant, I think about the sunshine as like the rays of sunshine, and you and I, as caregivers, are rays of the Christ’s presence—this tenderness of God. I have a big garden, and sometimes my dogs are outside and there’s stuff that the sun shines on that isn’t pleasant, but it isn’t conscious of the stuff it’s shining on. And it also makes the flowers grow, so to me, that gives me peace to know that I don’t have to be involved with mentally the stuff that I’m shining on. If I recognize that what I’m expressing is this impersonal, all-powerful Love, it kind of takes me above the garbage. And yet it still has the effect of drying it up. So, while you’re caring for your husband, keep in mind the spiritual qualities, just one at a time. Right here is tenderness. Right here is receptivity. Just really be bandaging the thought that there’s something other than what God knows in that moment.

Rosalie: This one is from the Midwestern United States, and they say: “It is not only care-givers that need help but the patient often develops feelings of resentment and ill-will toward the care-giver. The patient might sense that the care-giver is annoyed or upset or a little unsympathetic because of the care-giver’s plight of having to care for the patient. How can the patient overcome this, even when knowing that he has no legitimate reason for having these feelings toward the care-giver?”

Cate: You know, in a Christian Science nursing home—probably in all nursing homes—you knock on the patient’s door before you go in. That’s just an ethical standard. You knock on the patient’s door, and I always take that moment, when I stop and knock on the patient’s door before entering it, to identify myself as leading and following. Leading the patient to all good, and following the Father, God, to tell me what to do in there. And it seems that that’s one of those instances of putting on your own mask first, before you can help someone else. I think it’s important that your motive in going in there is fresh and clean and clear. And that you know that you’re there to help. I have to tell you more often than not, when you step in, they say, “Ah, the angels are coming back here.” Patients are just so willing to have someone care for them. It’s very rare that they would be unhappy with that care.

Rosalie: Well, I think this individual’s talking about someone at home, where the family members are taking care of them, and that can be a difficulty.

Ginny: Sometimes in long-term situations I find taking the time out of it—starting with the idea of timeless good. Each day is a brand new opportunity to discover a timeless reality, so that it isn’t the next day of the next day of the next day of a problem, but this is a moment of discovery, of the now of God’s goodness, which includes you and the patient. Because nobody’s left out of the all-now of God. To me, it’s like a treasure hunt that you’re holding hands with someone who happens to look like the patient, but taking the time out of it, and knowing that the eternity of reality is in that moment, can bring solutions that are really, maybe even humorous or fun or funny. There are times where it seems so heavy and so serious, that I find God breaks through with a great joy, a great sense of humor, when I get myself in this timed concept away—out of it. Let that go.

Rosalie: Well, this individual is asking about the patient being resentful toward the care-giver, and I think one other thing is sort of the time-tested making an effort to be grateful toward—even if it’s not the care-giver—to just have an attitude of gratitude for anything in one’s room that’s good or anything good’s that happening. That is a real antidote and a healer. By itself, gratitude can take you about a million miles toward healing.

Ginny: Gratitude, yeah, good thought.

Rosalie: This is from Julie in Bellevue: “When you’re caring for a patient, how do you prayerfully handle the fears and emotions of family members?”

Ginny: I like to start with the idea that there’s one Mind, and that that one Mind fills all space, and that there aren’t many members—just the one infinite source of all that’s going on in that space. To me, that brings it to a place where there’s a spiritual approach that really stands firm. So, I would study the idea—I mean just go to the books and look upfearlessness. The Bible says: “. . . perfect love casteth out fear” (I John 4:18 ). Really that compassion, then, of knowing that there’s one Mind then speaks to those individuals in practical ways.

Cate: Also, Julie, you know Christian Science nurses have many tasks which begin with the patient. But one of the tasks is, we do help family members learn how to care for the patient. One of our jobs is to include family so that they know what’s going on, and to teach them the right way to do things. And that fear—you know, you’re afraid of things you don’t know about. And when we can include them, and teach them how to do the things that we do, then they are much more a part of the patient’s experience, and therefore healing.

Rosalie: That sounds like a great idea. This is: “A dear friend of mine has an elderly father who has been unable to care for himself but who refuses to get any help outside the family. They’ve looked at the situation from every standpoint they can, and they don’t know what to do. They’re not Christian Scientists and some do not even believe in God.” This is Marilyn, writing from California. She says that it’s gone on for many years and is taking a toll on the family, and she’d love to have any thoughts that you guys can give that will help her help herself and them by maintaining a spiritual standpoint.

Cate: Did you say Marilyn?

Rosalie: Yes.

Cate: Marilyn, I’ve seen that very often. And it’s important to be truthful with the person that you’re concerned about, and explain that it’s been quite a job for you, and that there are other ways to get people to come and help. In your community, if you just take a phone book, or Google in your community, I’m sure there are lots of agencies that have helpers who come in and do things. And that might help relieve you.

Ginny: Well, and sometimes, if there’s a bullying or a controlling thought, that can be the basis of the problem. So you don’t want to be an enabler if somebody’s saying: “I want this” and “I want that.” Sometimes you just need to go right to the beliefs about the case, and just in your own thought, as a practitioner, handle the thought that there’s a bully or a mind apart from God, or anything controlling you, apart from the Christ-presence. That may need to be addressed specifically, metaphysically, by anyone who’s in charge—if there’s a practitioner—because I assume there’s somebody praying about this situation, or even Marilyn, thinking about it. You can know there’s—again—God’s presence is right there, and there’s no mind to push and pull, but just the one divine Love in control of both the patient and the family.

Rosalie: Now, this is from the United Kingdom, and the question is: “At the very core of Christian Science nursing is the discovery of spiritual reality and the conviction that this reality is demonstrable by everyone. How can we best nurture and encourage this ability to perceive spiritual reality, to know and feel the kingdom of infinite Spirit?”

Ginny: Is this question directed toward a care-giving situation or just in general?

Rosalie: I would assume since it’s about Christian Science nursing that it’s—“How can we best nurture this ability to perceive spiritual reality”—I suppose a practitioner and a nurse could both respond, because with a patient you kind of want them to perceive spiritual reality.

Cate: Rosalie, this may be an answer. One summer, in one of the Christian Science camps, the theme for the summer was: “If you were on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?” And maybe, as we go through our days with the care-giver and the person being cared for, if we keep that in our thought: “Am I actually acting like a Christian right here? Is there going to be enough evidence to convict me of being a Christian?” And that way, everything you do, you turn back to good, and God.

Ginny: I think, also, to take all the borders—to begin each opportunity to be a practical care-giver without any borders. You know, “I will do this, but I won’t do that.” I think human opinions are dropped in the most wonderful evidences of Christian care where you might find that new ideas and new ways of loving that you’ve never even thought of before bring a greater joy. We get used to certain ways and certain patterns and those often stand in the way, I’ve found, in maybe brand new views that bring a great sense of humor and a buoyancy to care-giving, and to seeing more deeply what God says is going on in that moment.

Rosalie: I think that’s very helpful.

Cate: Ginny, on my computer I have a little piece of paper taped, and it says: “What is God causing right this moment?” And that’s a good reminder for us—what God is causing.

Ginny: Yeah. That’s got to be the basis of what comes to light, is what’s God doing in this moment? And so, for me, it really is an opportunity to go gold-digging, if you will, in whatever moment—whether I’m on a bus with somebody who looks like they’re having a problem, or sitting in an airplane, or caring for somebody in a sick room—which is really, “What’s God seeing in this room.” And the sick can go out of every moment with the joy of what God’s seeing.

Rosalie: That ties in with something Ed from Mexico City is writing. He says: “It’s not easy to be a care-giver to somebody when you realize what the core problem of the situation is. And it’s even harder when the individual is a relative. I’ve worked it out for me to keep in view God’s perfect and healthy child, keep a healing atmosphere, and respect this person’s wishes to work it out in Christian Science the way she decides. What are your thoughts in a case like this?”

Cate: Oh, you good man, Ed.

Ginny: That’s what I thought! I love the show Galaxy Quest. There’s a line in there that says, “Never give up, never surrender”—to a lesser sense of God’s allness. It’s a fidelity to the First Commandment that I find great joy in, that says: “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” And it can be a god that’s just a moment when God’s missing—that’s a sense of another god in that moment, or it can be a long sequence of opportunities to know that there’s one reality in that moment, and it’s good. So it sounds like he’s right on.

Cate: Ginny, since you got to bring up your favorite show, just last week I saw Rango. And the turning point in Rango was when he realized—this voice came to him and said, “It’s not about you”—or the patient. It’s about God. And that’s really the First Commandment: “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

Rosalie: You know, that’s a very important point to bring out, because sometimes if the patient is very demanding, it can almost seem like a god. Someone who’s saying: “I demand,” as God, so to speak, “that you should be doing this for me.” It can become very oppressive.

Now, this is one I’m not sure we can do, but I’m going to ask. It’s from Kent in Gothenburg, Sweden: “I’m a Swede, and have been at a hospital for about five years now after having had a stroke which made me paralyzed to about ninety percent. Therefore, I’m very dependent on everyone at the hospital here in Sweden. Very few people here have ever heard of Christian Science, and there is a very aggressive attitude to non-medical ideas in our country. We’re more or less forced to use medicine, and I feel very defenseless in my situation. Do you have any helpful ideas for me?”

Ginny: I do. Our thoughts aren’t ever paralyzed. Mrs. Eddy, in her writings, talks about travel into prisons and how the light of the Christ goes to the deepest, darkest places, and I think an example of how that ten percent that isn’t paralyzed is so powerful, is something you can use. But more important is the thoughts that you have about this world, the prayerful embrace that you can do for the countries that are struggling from tsunamis and wars and so on, are powerful. A wonderful friend of mine, Peter Henniker-Heaton, and his wife, told me about when he was paralyzed, except for his head and neck. He put Science and Health on his chest—she would prop it up for him—and he used a pencil in his teeth and the eraser, while she had to go off in England and do singing and so on for the troops. And he memorized half of Science and Health. He would turn the pages with the eraser with a pencil in his mouth, and he became one of the most powerful, beautiful thinkers I’d ever known. He did have a healing and walked like nobody I’d ever seen walk before. But he just refused to surrender to the dire situation—and that was during a war when bombs were falling. It was a tough time, but he used what he had, first of all, and then Science and Health brought ideas that he brought into his thought and practiced in his thinking as he was lying there paralyzed. And he did have his healing. So just never give up with what you do have. Use what you have. And trust that there’s a reality in that moment that is impelling you to come out from the suffering. And those around you will see it. They can’t help but see it when you’re radiating that kind of gratitude and joy that you find in Science and Health.

Cate: They’ll all want it.

Ginny: And we all have it, it’s innate in us, yeah.

Cate: And Kent, our son and his wife are in Sweden, so you do have some support there. There’s just the right person when you need it. Kent, I’ve got a suggestion for you. This is very much fun to do. If you take a Science and Health and start at page one with a marker, and if you underline everything that is appropriate to your situation, by the time you get to the last page, you’ve got a treatment—a Christian Science treatment. It just encapsulates it for you.

Rosalie: Now this is from a care-giver in Washington in the United States: “A fellow church member recently suffered a stroke, and is in a rehab center per her son’s wishes. Because her son lives far from the rehab center our church members try to visit her and stimulate her with conversation. However, there doesn’t seem to be much progress. Besides prayer—and we are praying—are there other ways we can get our member to be more active?”

Ginny: Oh, that’s really specific. I think just going and being there is an amazing step. But I think the work that the members do to know the truth, which is sometimes real radical, that they’re not giving her inspiration, they’re not bringing something to her that she doesn’t already have. I think to start with the truth about her is going to be the greatest activity of the Christ that they can bring. For me, care-giving is care-recognizing rather than bringing something. Maybe each one, before they go in, makes a firm commitment to know that they can’t be fooled into thinking they’re causing something that God messed up on, and somehow it needs to happen again. One of the terms you used was that they were giving her a lift—I don’t remember the term exactly—but just really claim that right there, right now, spiritually there’s nothing but what God knows going on. And that’s radical, but it’s the thing that heals, is the knowing the truth that Jesus talks about in the Bible: “Ye shall know the truth” and it will make you, and those your thought rests on, free. So maybe get a little more metaphysical or more absolute in what you take when you go in there.

Cate: And if there’s any discouragement, put that out. Just keep doing what you’re doing.

Rosalie: Now I’d like to share a little experience I had. A friend of mine, who was a member of my branch church—she’s a very reclusive person who was just kind of very independent—and ended up falling in her house, and ended up being taken to the hospital by the police because her neighbors hadn’t seen her, and they asked for them to make a special check on her. When she got to the hospital, her leg had been injured in a way that they had to amputate from the knee down. And so now, her whole life was like radically, radically changed. We visited her during the time that she was in the hospital, and also when she was at the rehab, and she was there for a long time. Some of us who had known her a little better went pretty regularly. So I went to the rehab quite often. And one night I showed up, and the nurse there stopped me before I even got into her room and said, “You’d better do something about this because if she doesn’t straighten up and start getting with the program, we’re not even going to try to get her a prosthetic leg. She’s just going to be the way she is now, and that’s it.” I was kind of, “OK.” I guess she spoke to me, because I came fairly regularly—I wasn’t a relative or anything. So I went in, and my friend’s head was down, her chin was on her chest, and she didn’t even lift her head when I came in. So I sat there and I was quiet for awhile—I was praying—and finally I said, “How are you doing?” or something to that effect, and there was a long silence and then she said, “Sometimes you make decisions and then you don’t know what to do after that.” And I realized that what she was saying was that she had accepted the removal of her leg, and now she was in this situation, and she just really didn’t want to go on. So I was sitting there and thinking to myself, “What on earth do you say to someone in a situation like that?” And I just really, really prayed. The thought that came to me was—I said to her, “You know, when you made that decision, they had said to you that if that wasn’t done, you would die, and you were choosing life. The choice you made was really for life as you understood it at that point. That doesn’t mean that you would make the same choice now, but at that point that was what you knew, and you chose life.” I said, “So, just keep choosing life. As long as you do that, you’re going to be OK.” And what was funny was—not funny to laugh at—but her head just came right up, and after that we had a good conversation, and then she did go on through the rehab and she got all the stuff she was supposed to get. But it was one of the most difficult questions anyone had ever put to me, because you can’t really say, “Well, hey, no problem.” I mean you really have to come back with something that’s helpful and serious.

Ginny: Well, you gave her another choice.

Rosalie: Right.

Cate: And Rosalie, I’m sure that you stopped and said to yourself, “Father, you tell me what to say.”

Rosalie: Oh yeah, believe me I had no answers. Trust me on that one! The prayer that went up on that one was like as pure and as straight as could be—not coming from me.

Ginny: The Bible’s filled with things that I can’t believe are there when I need them. I’m always in awe. The moment has its own answer within it. And for a care-giver, I think that’s what you were saying, Cate, is such a joy. It’s not that we all like to bandage wounds or whatever, but that there’s such a presence—a Christ presence—that’s already in that place where the problem seems to be. And that’s what the Bible says, “. . . the peace of God, which passeth all understanding.” It “keep[s] our hearts and minds.” It’s “through Christ Jesus” (Phil. 4:7 ). I marvel that the answers are there.

Rosalie: Well, and I think it gets back even to Jesus. I mean think of all the people Jesus healed in any one day. If he didn’t enjoy being a healer, that would have been pretty bad. But the way that he was continually able to see, as Mrs. Eddy says: “Jesus beheld in Science the perfect man . . . ” (pp. 476-477 ), to be able to see that all the time. His vision never wandered from that aspect of things.

Ginny: The virgin birth, of course, gave him a little bit of a heads up on what most of us see, but it sure is encouraging for us to know he showed us what’s here.

Cate: Rosalie, you know I’m thinking in that situation, you did the same thing as the Good Samaritan in Luke in the Bible. There was this fellow on the road who needed care, two people passed by—they not only passed by, but they went to the other side of the street to pass by. And it would have been very easy for you to go in and have a nice conversation with your friend, and go home. But instead, you jumped in. And I think maybe we all need to do that when someone is asking, because our right motives will give us the strength, will give us the freedom, to our speech and action.

Ginny: I find this tragedy that we’re seeing in Japan amazing to see that we are jumping in—the whole world is jumping in, in ways that are just beyond what I’ve ever experienced before. We are made to love. It’s abnormal not to jump in and get involved. It really goes against the grain of our identity as expressions of God. And there’s a hymn I just love from Mrs. Eddy, “O gentle presence.” One of the lines says that God, basically, “owns each waiting hour.” I find that comforting in long-term care-giving—that the waiting is to see what’s there, but even if it seems like it’s a long time, God owns each of those waiting hours and will comfort us and those we are caring for in that hour, in every hour.

Rosalie: This is a woman in the United Kingdom, who says: “I’m caring for my mother, who only today no longer has the use of her legs.” It seems as though she lost her confidence in her legs a few days ago, and although she wasn’t hurt because her daughter was able to hold her and gently let her down, she’s just very afraid, and will not move or stand. “I feel that if I try to get her out of bed tomorrow I will have the same as today,” where she virtually had to carry her. She’s looking to hear what you guys have to say, and that may be a case, Cate, where that idea of sharing thoughts about how to handle those things, either through a care facility or through a nurse, would be useful.

Cate: Well, I want to say this, of course I wouldn’t give any advice over the phone because I don’t see the situation. But if I were there, actually we should get together because I live in England, too, and I take care of my 97-year-old mother. She had been in bed for a year because of that exact thing which you experienced. Did you say it was today?

Rosalie: It was recently—a few days ago.

Cate: The exact same thing happened, and my mother-in-law’s not a Christian Scientist. And the exact thing happened—she went to bed for a year and my husband and I—my husband’s also a Christian Science nurse—we discussed what is the next step? And we listened very hard to be told what to do. And to make a long story short, we went to my mother-in-law a few months ago, and said, “We’re going to take you on a little ride today.” And we put her in the car, and we drove her to South Hampton, and we put her on the Queen Elizabeth, where we all spent a week, coming to Florida. And my mother-in-law last night walked around the block with us. I think sometimes we need to stop seeing someone as ill or over the hill, and just know that normal and natural is what we’re really looking for. And miracles, really, are supremely natural, we’re taught in Christian Science. We should expect that good—with no limits.

Ginny: Also, she mentioned fear. There’re wonderful articles on christianscience.com and in the periodicals to handle the fear. Those articles can be read to your mother, just really “pour[ing] in truth through flood-tides of Love” (see p. 201 ), by specifically handling the fear. Because the Bible [Science and Health] says, “Fear never stopped being and its action” (p. 151 ), and that’s an absolute reality for your mother’s being. Fear is a bully and it can be wiped out. It can be kicked right out, like your mother saw from the cruise. There was great joy, and that fear had no place.

Rosalie: Now, this is from Christian in the Netherlands, who says: “What wonderful questions. Ginny talked about caring for a father-in-law. Any more thoughts about how to keep a marriage and family together when there seems to be a gravitational pull away from the family center?”

Ginny: I think, again, you’ve got to take the time that you require to love your family member, your neighbor, as yourself. So you have to love yourself. When we’ve had some of our toughest times with teenagers, who were having challenges, we always had date night. We would take time to do prayerful work together in the morning, and even if the phone’s ringing off the hook or whatever, the calls are coming, your relationship to God and to each other as a couple or as a family, has to come first. As difficult as that can be, they will survive another half an hour, or you can bring somebody in—which we’ve also done. So I think that wonderful “love your neighbor as yourself”—start with your own relationship to God and be sure you treat yourself kindly.

Cate: Also, Ginny, don’t you agree that with a husband or a wife, your dedication to what you’re doing—for example, if you’re taking care of someone in your family, to do that together, to care-give together, really can bring you closer, not be a separating factor.

Ginny: Well, in our experience, it wasn’t possible, because my husband had to go and be away from the house, and he was in the military. I just had to be there at times. So it could be, but not everybody has the same disposition and is willing to do that in a family. So I always go to the idea—well, the other day I was thinking, we have this crazy, big family and all kinds of things going on, and it just hit me. There’s the Lord’s Prayer inScience and Health—the spiritual interpretation, it just came to my thought, page 16 and 17, where it says, “Our Father-Mother God, all-harmonious.” That, to me, is the basis of why you have the right to be a happy family, because we all have one Father-Mother God. That sets the standard, that sets the tone—whether it’s for energy, finances, time together. If we’ve got one source, one Father-Mother God, then you have the right to bring that into your experience, and experience the joy of that reality.

Rosalie: This is from Diana in the United States. She says: “How can I balance my own dependence on Christian Science while still being a medical advocate for my husband, who is not a student of Christian Science, and needs full-time support for several disabilities? Jumping from one mode of thinking into another is often exhausting and confusing.”

Ginny: At the risk of talking too much, the term Christian Science—I’m the first student of Christian Science in a big family, and when I started lecturing I looked up Christian, and it said, “Having the qualities demonstrated by Christ Jesus, such as love, kindness, and so on.” And I thought, “Gosh, I know a lot of Buddhists and different people who express the qualities that Christ Jesus introduced. And then Science is “the application and the study of something in order to better understand it and prove it.” And I thought, “Wow, Christian Science is really the application of beautiful, spiritual qualities and it isn’t a denominational thing. It’s not something I have a handle on.” Mrs. Eddy understood the power and the law behind the application of these qualities, but everyone truly has a Christianly scientific attitude when they’re expressing love and so on. So, I like not to divide us into little compartments. So if my precious in-law or whatever, needs some medical procedure, it’s the kind of thing that I could do to help them with their need because that’s their highest sense of love or care. So I’m more Christianly scientific to do that, than to say something that might be metaphysically more accurate as I see it. I just don’t like to divide us into groups.

Cate: I agree with you. I think sometimes our job is to see the Christian Scientist in everybody—to see those qualities that we love—those wonderful qualities. You know, Mrs. Eddy says on page 497 —it’s the sixth tenet of Christian Science—and she says: “And we solemnly promise to watch, and pray for that Mind to be in us which was also in Christ Jesus; to do unto others as we would have them do unto us; and to be merciful, just, and pure.” That doesn’t say, “Go into the Christian Scientist’s home, and ‘be merciful, just, and pure.’ ” That’s our solemn promise.

Ginny: I like that, Cate. It’s really a matter of respect, because some of the most incredible human beings have been not students of Christian Science, maybe, but the most Christianly scientific people I’ve met.

Rosalie: Now, this is a related question. I thought we’d do the two of them together, but this is different enough to treat them one at a time. “My husband and I are in our eighties. I have relied on Christian Science my entire life. My husband is antagonistic toward my religion and thinks he does not believe in God. For the past thirteen years he’s had several operations and another scheduled in May. We are constantly in the hospital and doctors’ offices for tests and care. As a result of the health problems, I have to care for open wounds, concerned about what he can eat, etc. I’m never free of the mental picture of illness. It concerns me that I am taking in so much medical thought through what I see and hear. I think after awhile, it just all seems to be a normal part of our lives. I have to be careful of depression because it seems the problems are never-ending. I would appreciate any thoughts you can help me with.”

Ginny: I think Cate gave a beautiful idea of the sixth tenet. She says she’s never free of the mental picture of illness but that sixth tenet idea says “we solemnly promise to watch. and pray for that Mind to be in us which was also in Christ Jesus . . . .” and he was surrounded with stuff. But he had a sense of the consciousness of God that really had a great effect on the world, but he didn’t believe it. He wasn’t sucked into it. I think that goal of when those images come to your thought, you can say, “That’s not my thought, and it’s not his thought. It’s not the reality of this moment,” and still do the bandaging.

Cate: And here’s my thought. You, angel, you!

Ginny: Yes, exactly, exactly. But you can be free of the mental picture of illness because you’ve got the light of the right idea of that husband, of your loving care, and so on. So, that’s the reality in your moment, and it’s more powerful than those mental pictures of illness.

Cate: You know, too, Mrs. Eddy says: “. . . he must know himself before he can know others and minister to human needs” (p. 453 ). Your job is to minister to human heeds right now, but know yourself and cling to yourself. You know who you are—you’re that child of God—as is he.

Ginny: Yeah, and if you’re having trouble doing it, have a nurse come in once in awhile and take care of it, and go get your hair done or something. It doesn’t have to always, maybe, be you—just to give yourself a break.

Rosalie: This is from Seattle in the United States: “How do I pray for a situation with my mom who is in a care facility, and not expected to last much longer? I know her life cannot truly end, but I find myself not knowing whether to pray for an easy end or what?” And then we’ve got another one. This is from Ralph in Boston, who says: “Some people seem to think their bodies should last forever. Do they think that life is physical? Is it some kind of pride that prevents them from moving on?” So there’re the two different sides of that question.

Ginny: Yeah, it’s kind of like my father-in-law thing. How do I pray? Do I pray that he dies and has a little money to pay for everything, or not?

Cate: I have to say that I chuckle at this sentence that Mrs. Eddy wrote. It says: “Prayers, in which God is not asked to heal but is besought to take the patient to Himself, do not benefit the sick” (p. 395 ).

Ginny: Yeah, that’s good. And I had a nurse once tell me she was grateful—she was a Christian Science nurse—that the patient had passed, because there was no longer any suffering. And we have to be careful. Jesus called death an enemy. It’s not the final chapter. So I think there is a tendency sometimes to think, because we can’t see it any more, it’s gone. But what a joy to think that that patient continues because of the work you’ve done in your thought about her, to discover more of her undying, eternal nature as God’s idea.

Cate: You know, Mrs. Eddy goes on and says, what the nurse, or care-giver—let’s substitute that—what the nurse should be. She says, “. . . cheerful, orderly, punctual, patient, full of faith,—receptive to Truth and Love” (p. 395 ). Well, I think that answers that question right there. Those are our jobs in a situation like that.

Ginny: There’s one other thing I find helpful. In the Manual for Christian Science, Manual, I love the “A Rule for Motives and Acts.” It says, “Neither animosity,” and then “nor mere personal attachment.” Now, your attachment to an individual might even give you license to think something about them, like “I wish they would go on” that you wouldn’t think if you didn’t feel personally attached to them. So, that she says should not—it shouldn’t, she says: “Neither animosity nor mere personal attachment should impel the motives or acts of the members of The Mother Church” (p. 40 ). And I love that admonition that we’re not attached personally to that mother or father or patient or husband, but we’re attached to the idea that God is their Parent. God is in control. God’s the source, and so on. That will help kind of loosen that burden of thought.

Rosalie: We’ve had a couple of questions about long-term healing where Margaret in Colorado is saying: “Why don’t people always get healed, even after years of help from practitioners?” and so forth. I wonder if you would want to comment on that issue?

Cate: Yes! Margaret, if you have a Science and Health, take one and go through it cover to cover and underline the things that address that. Mary Baker Eddy addresses these questions. But that’s a large one, and you should gather all those phrases and sentences and ideas, and then you’ll have that answer.

Ginny: And I don’t think all of us practitioners are doing the kind of work that we can do. I think we have a lot to learn about the unreality of evil, and the allness of God. It’s tough when you’re a practitioner and you haven’t been able to heal a patient. It isn’t the patient’s fault. In Mary Baker Eddy: Christian Healer, she makes it quite clear it’s the practitioner’s opportunity, not necessarily the care-giver, but the Christian Science practitioner who’s hired to pray for a patient. It’s their opportunity to do the healing. So sometimes patients feel like it’s their fault they haven’t been receptive or whatever, but as a practitioner we can do better healing work. We’re doing what we understand, but boy, down the line, I pray that we’ll do what Christ Jesus, and often Mrs. Eddy did in her incredible healing life. If you want some encouragement read Mary Baker Eddy: Christian Healer—an incredible, wonderful book.

Cate: And you know, I have to say this—in Christian Science nursing homes we see healing all the time. I can’t think of anything that we haven’t seen healed.

Ginny: Yeah.

Cate: You know that time, though, is a tricky thing. Time is really tricky. And in Christian Science we learn that “Mind,” or God, “measures time according to the good that is unfolded” (p. 584 ). I think each day along the way, as we progress, if we’re looking for the good, then we’ll watch that unfolding, and that does heal.

Ginny: And I think we’re both in this, Cate, because we’ve seen healing. I’ve seen wonderful healing in my practice, and in my life. But not to beat ourselves up for what we haven’t yet seen. We have a long, wonderful journey, but in every moment the Truth is still there, even when it looks like we haven’t done the greatest healing work.

Rosalie: This is one from Carol in Sacramento, California. She says: “I came onto the chat late. Have you already spoken to the question of caring for a family member who attends Christian Science church, but asks for what I feel is non-Christian Science remedies? I try to mention that quote, ‘I understand that this might bring relief temporarily’ but I don’t really feel that this is the answer.”

Cate: You know, one thing that we work with each day is knowing that what our jobs are, are the coincidence of the human with the divine. And your friend or a family member may have a sense of the divine and so is attracted to those church services and to everything they hear. In fact, on Wednesday nights in all Christian Science churches, they have testimony meetings of people talking about healings. In fact, if we have just a second—do we, Rosalie?

Rosalie: Yes.

Cate: This is just something that I shared last week. It was about when I was a brand-new nurse, and I was sitting in church, and we assume everyone there are Christian Scientists, and doing well, and loving it. But a man in our service seemed to pass on. And I didn’t want to deal with that frankly. And so, at the end of the service, I went out to my car, and got in my car, and sped away. But just as I got to the end of the driveway, someone came out and said, “Oh, you’re a Christian Science nurse. Can’t you come take care of this?” And I prayed so hard, going back into that church to know what to do. I turned to God wholeheartedly and said, “You tell me what to do.” And the words came, “Put them all out.” Those were Jesus’ words: “Put them all out.” And I thought, Look, I’m just a little, brand-new Christian Science nurse, I don’t think I can put the whole church out. So I walked in and I said, “Would all of you please leave, and shut the door behind you.” And I sat with this fellow and just prayed and prayed. About twenty minutes later, we both walked out of the church.

Rosalie: Excellent.

Cate: And sometimes I think we just have to say, “Father, You tell me what to do. You tell me what to say.” So, with your friend who goes to church but asks for other remedies, that you consider remedies, maybe it’s time for you to say: “Father, You tell me.” Because I certainly can’t tell you what to say to someone like that.

Ginny: If it’s real, it’s real. If it isn’t, it doesn’t have any power to take away your friend’s relationship to God. So, there are times where people use things that for a while might bring the comfort that they think they need. The comfort might lead them to the next place where they realize that that didn’t get to the heart of the problem. So, I don’t think I’ve found myself in an opinion about what is and isn’t right for my family members outside my immediate family—usually just embracing them. Sometimes I’ll call my mom or dad and they might be going through different things than what I would do as a student of Christian Science. And I’ll just say, “How are you doing?” And “I’m so glad that that worked, and that you’re doing better.” They find a compassion—compassion is a wonderful healer. Sometimes, just your compassion can be a great support. And Cate, everybody’s going to want you to come to their meetings now on Wednesdays!

Cate: I will, yeah!

Ginny: And theoretically these are for the public. We were just in a—Sunday—in a drug forum with all the public. There were a hundred and thirty people in a big forum with a DA and all these people. And I was giving a Christian Science lecture, and somebody collapsed right in the middle of all this—the cameraman. And the whole group—I mean these were from drug courts, all over the place, mentally. The DA said, “Let’s all pray together”—this fellow. And we all came at it from different points of view. But prayer works because God is truly Love. And he got up. It took about a half hour and the medics came and said, “Everything’s fine.” And he said, “Boy, I’ve never felt so much love,” while he was lying on the floor. So I think we each bring our very best. And if that’s your friend’s very best right now, so be it.

Cate: Oh, Ginny, here’s what we’re supposed to do. Mrs. Eddy says, for genuine healing here are the three things she tells us to do.

Ginny: Only three!

Cate: “The tender word,” “Christian encouragement,” and “pitiful patience” (see p. 367 ). You can have that patience with your friend or relative as they grow in their understanding.

Ginny: Lovely.

Rosalie: We’ve had a couple of questions about Christian Science nursing facilities. One question is asking for a comment on their role in how branch church members can support them, and another one is saying, why aren’t there more? And I just thought that it would be nice, particularly for people on the chat who are not familiar with Christian Science, to get an idea of what those facilities are, and how they’re operated. I would just like to give a little comment myself, which is I sometime ago had to bring a friend of mine to such a facility. My friend was healed very quickly, and received wonderful care, and I was very impressed by the professionalism of the nurses. This was kind of a sudden arrival and they were just ready. They met us at the door of the emergency entrance, and got her right in, and warm and everything else. So, I myself think they’re wonderful places, but would love to hear what you all think.

Cate: I think they’re wonderful places. Christian Science facilities are all over the world. And the reason I want to answer the second question first: Why are there not more? Well, you know, we all pray each day that the need for healing will diminish. We’re hoping that we get put out of business, because we want everyone to be directly in touch with his Father. The Christian Science nursing homes around the world hold the highest standards. If you go into one, I can guarantee, if you were blindfolded, use your nose and tell where you were, because they’re impeccably clean. They’re really lovely and gentle places, staffed with dedicated people, and they take physical care of a patient, and provide the atmosphere that promotes healing.

Ginny: I love that, Cate. I had a patient who was in a hospital for a procedure. She was there for about four days, and I was with her quite a bit of the time. The doctors and the nurses kept coming to our room. We were both students of Christian Science, and it was a Caesarean birth. They loved it. In fact, one of the doctors, or one of the nurses, came in and said, “We love being in this atmosphere. We have dubbed your room the sunshine room on the ward, because it feels so peaceful here.” And I have to say that we take that atmosphere when we know that spiritual approach to care-giving wherever we go. So even in medical environments, there have been times where I’ve found wonderful receptivity because the motive of the doctors and the nurses can be so pure and so wanting to give. So if someone has to go to a facility that isn’t a Christian Science facility, they’re still in the care of God’s love and grace, and can bring that sense of the Christian Science care facility right to the medical situation.

Cate: In a Christian Science care facility, there’s no medication, and we use only spiritual means for healing. But, at the same time, all of the facilities abide by what the law is in their state or country. For example, in one state in America anyone who takes care of anyone in a facility is required to study blood-borne pathogens and know how to take care of the linens, and the atmosphere, and even down to washing hands. And there are people who come in from the state and teach that. So whatever the state or country requires, we maintain those standards.

Ginny: There’s practical care, yeah.

Rosalie: Well, that sounds very good. We have just a couple more questions and then we’re going to have to end. This was a comment from Sandy in Orange County, California. We’d been talking about people passing on, and Sandy says: “Regarding prayer for a quick passing, once when that thought occurred to me while caring for a family member with a terminal diagnosis, I recall praying for the imposition to be removed, both on her thinking and ours. I turned to God wholeheartedly, and wrote down qualities that this loved one represented, which was a healing for me. She did end up passing within a few days, but I did not pray for that outcome. I’m certain that she moved right on, and continues to progress spiritually.”

Ginny: Yeah, Sandy, that’s exactly what I experienced with my father-in-law. It was just like we moved to a higher sphere in the thought of the whole situation. I love that.

Cate: You know, Mrs. Eddy says that we should “Silently reassure” the patient [see p. 411 ]. Silently—that was your prayer, Sandy.

Rosalie: And this is from Jo in the United States. She says: “What should I know to be helpful with a relative that doesn’t hear well, and is struggling with the effects of several falls? The hearing problem sometimes appears to block the truth the practitioner or Bible-Lesson might be sharing.”

Cate: Jo, I love it that you’re asking that question. Because when someone doesn’t hear well, and they’re in a conversation, people begin to treat them as though they’re not really there. And I love it that you want to keep him right here. I think it’s important for you to know that hearing isn’t a physical law. Hearing is a spiritual idea. And you can know that your patient can hear what he needs to hear. And at the same time, Jo, get very close to his ear, and speak with a loud voice, and face him with your face facing his eyes so he can watch your mouth, because so much of communication isn’t the words and the sound, but it’s watching the gestures and the face.

Ginny: There’s a communication, too, whether they’re in your sight, I use a lot with my kids, or not, that to know that the Christ is speaking to them and giving them the ideas, the concepts, the right sense of things. And whether that’s to get a hearing aid, or to be quiet, and to have a healing—whatever—that the Christ is speaking to that loved one and giving them everything they need right in every moment. Again, “. . . to all mankind and in every hour, divine Love supplies all good” (p. 494 ). You can know that for both yourself and that individual.

Cate: May I give you a practical tip, also? This just reminds me, Jo, of when you have someone who’s in a wheelchair. Don’t stand up and talk to them, squat down and get next to them. It will make them feel part of the community.

Rosalie: There’s a question that’s just come in, Ginny, and if you don’t want to take it that’s fine with me. But it is specifically directed to you. “What was your role in the case of the Caesarian birth?”

Ginny: I was a practitioner.

Rosalie: Let me just finish the question. It says: “A practitioner cannot give treatment during a medical procedure, can they?”

Ginny: I have been asked twice by doctors to give treatment. One was a split kneecap years and years and years ago, where the doctor was afraid—it was a senior citizen—for the heart of the patient. And I prayed during the procedure. I prayed specifically to know that the strength of divine Love was right there in that place. I did treatment that I felt was within the boundaries of my ability to do so, to strengthen and work for the patient. And it healed in half the time. And the doctor was very supportive of Christian Science. And in this case, it was an emergency—a medical situation. And actually the doctor came in when she found out that I was a Christian Science practitioner when I went in with this patient to the hospital. And she said, “You’re her primary care-giver, so come on in during the surgery.” That was a new one for me, and I did. I put on all the doctor-garb and everything, and went in with the patient and stayed at her head. And when they would say there was something going on, I would, out loud, know the truth that there was one intelligence delivering mankind, and so on in the birth. So, there are areas where you can work together with a physician, when a bone’s being set or if there’s an emergency situation. We worked beautifully together. This is pretty specific, and like you said, Rosalie, to get into greater detail would probably be called for, if we were really having a conversation one on one. I don’t think we necessarily preclude each other, but there are times where you wouldn’t. And I’d be happy to talk to you through e-mail if that person wants to e-mail me about this.

Rosalie: And both of these ladies are listed in The Christian Science Journal. Cate Vincent is under, of course, “Christian Science nurses” and Ginny Luedeman is—it’s Salem, Oregon?

Ginny: That’s right.

Rosalie: So if you just look up “Christian Science practitioners” in Salem, Oregon—and in “Nursing,” Cate is under the United Kingdom, and she’s going to tell me how to pronounce the city where she lives.

Cate: It’s Weare Giffard, and it’s a lovely place.

Rosalie: So you can just look them up, and they would be happy to communicate with you. We do have one last comment, and then that’s it. “I so appreciate your thoughts shared today, though my husband passed on, he was not a Christian Scientist. Before his passing he went through various degrees of medical treatment, which at first was foreign and scary for me. However, God each morning when treating myself, gave me the strength, wisdom, and ability to rise and walk over the situation. Our medical team expressed to us much of what, Ginny, you shared about your experience with your friend. Thank you for letting me know—which I already did—but that God was right there with each of us. Through this discussion, though, it is important not to climb into the dream.”

Cate: Oh, you darling, you.

Ginny: And even if we feel like we’ve climbed into it, if it’s a dream, it has no power, so we can always awaken.

Rosalie: So I’m going to give you both an opportunity to make some final comments.

Cate: Ginny?

Ginny: You go ahead.

Cate: I just want to thank you, and to thank people for their questions, and to encourage you to study further and find out some more about how we can spiritually care-give.

Ginny: Yeah, I love that. We’re all working under the divine law of “Our Father-Mother God, all-harmonious.” So, we’re not alone in this. I love to think that those who’ve gone before—Christ Jesus, the disciples, practitioners, people of prayerful thought throughout the world—are all working together. We’re all supporting, we’re one family and we’re going to awaken to see that God is good. And there’s eventually going to be quicker healing and more awakening to the reality that Jesus promised. He said, “. . . the kingdom of heaven is [within you and] at hand” (e.g. see Matt. 3:2 ). And that’s what’s really going on here.

Cate: And Ginny, you said the most important words—it’s our Father, not mine or yours.

Ginny: Our Father. We’re all together.

Rosalie: Well, thank you both very much. It’s just been a joy to have you. And for those of you who came in late, we may have covered your question already. I tried to cover all the classes of questions that you all offered, and we’re so glad that you came to the chat. Today’s topic was “A spiritual approach to care-giving” and our two guests were Ginny Luedeman, a teacher and practitioner of Christian Science; and Cate Vincent, a Christian Science nurse from Weare Giffard in the United Kingdom. And Ginny’s from Salem, Oregon.